Motivatin to Become Directors?
Panahi: I was raised working class and for us, there was no entertainment. All we had was a library in our neighborhood. So I always was there. I was 11 or 12, and I was quite a chubby boy. Because of that, someone asked me if I want to act in a film, a super 8 film. I said, ‘Yeah, why not?’ On set for the first time was the first time I saw a camera. I realized there is some person looking from this camera into the world. I really wanted to be that person behind the camera.
Filmmaking as political act?
Panahi: I want to say that I don’t see myself as a politically-engaged filmmaker, because I have a certain definition for political films. For me [political films] are like political parties. They are about ideology that divides people into good and bad. I’m more a socially-engaged filmmaker. In [socially-engaged] films, there is no absolute good or bad human being, but it’s the situation that makes this person good or bad.
I think that everyone, and every ideology, should be respected. They all should contribute. This is what happens in my film with the torturer. In the whole film, every character is talking about this one person [their torturer], who is absent. He’s in a box, in a car.
But because I wanted to be fair towards him as well, I made the decision, at the end of the film to give him a shot, a 13-minute long medium shot, so that we can see him. We see the others come and go [in the shot] but the camera doesn’t turn towards those other people. That’s his share [of the story]. He also has the opportunity to get a defense of what happened to him, to tell his story.
In this world today, in countries under authoritarian regimes, even your clothes can be political. How you live, how you behave, everything can be political. But when we are talking about films, it’s not about politics anymore. It’s about the society. It’s about the humans.
Panahi: I think when the filmmaker has pain, something moves, and this is the kick the filmmaker needs to tell something, to show something and show it to others. This pain could be very simple, a very simple conversation, that kicks something in you. It won’t be an idea right now, but you will keep it in your mind unconsciously and you can’t get rid of it.
It happened when I was in prison. In prison in Iran, they ask you questions. If you are a political prisoner, it takes 7-8 hours. You sit close to the wall, you have a pen and a paper and someone behind you asks you questions. You have a blindfold, and you have to push it up a little bit so you can write your answers.
When I was doing that, I wasn’t thinking about the questions or my answers. I only thought: ‘Who is this person behind me?’ I couldn’t see anything, but I could hear him. I started asking myself: ‘How old is he? What is he wearing? If I see him outside, would I recognize him? If I do, how would I behave?’
Whatever you do in your life, I think it will be in your films at some point. You don’t know how. You can’t decide how. We can’t help finding subjects in our life. We see, we observe, and we want to tell.
Panahi: The reality is, watching films in movie theaters is one of the most enjoyable things you can do. It’s so joyful. It was such a pity for me that I have seen [your films] alone, because I need to watch with Persian subtitles. I think the joy of seeing them with an audience would be very different. But finally, last year, I could travel to Cannes and see my own film with the audience in Cannes. This was the first time after 17 years. Because my films were never screened in Iran, I couldn’t go to movie theaters and see them with an audience. And I hadn’t been outside of Iran.
For a director, watching the film with an audience is important, because you see your strengths and your weakness, you realize where you connected with your audience. Sometimes it happens that your audience finds something you never thought of. I’ve watched my film with audiences over five continents and I see difference. In the United States or Canada, for example, they laugh more [at the film]. In Asia, they laugh less. Or sometimes they laugh so hard I can’t understand why? There’s a scene when the wife and child of the torturer are at the hospital, and people were laughing. I said: ‘Why? It’s not funny.’ And they said: ‘It’s quite funny. These people wanted to kill [their torturer] and now they are helping his wife and child.’ I don’t know why, but that turned into laughter in the movie theater.
During the 12 Day War in Iran, when Evin Prison was bombed, some prisoners got free. It was in section four, the section I was in, and there is section 209, where the torturers are. The prisoners got out and the saw the torturers. And before they ran away, they helped the torturers get out, before the area was bombed. Is that funny? Maybe when they see them again on the outside they will think of revenge. But this again is this humanism, that is the subject of socially-engaged cinema.
Courage to make controvrsial movies
Panahi: Every time I hear the word courage, I get a little concerned. Because I think I don’t have that courage. I can only make films. It is my job. If I feel pain about something, I make films about it. It’s not about courage.
Maybe the courage is that I don’t let others decide for me. I do whatever I believe in and do whatever I want to do.
When I was a student and I wanted to make a film, I had everything I needed, because I was making it for television. I shot the film. Then while I was editing, I realized, ‘wow, this film is quite horrible.’ Technically, everything was okay, but there was no emotion in it. Nothing with my signature. We worked with film negative at the time. So I snuck into the laboratory and destroyed all the negatives so no one would ever see that film. That’s why I say it’s important to express yourself, to be yourself. If being yourself means courage, ok. But if it means you are very brave and you can change the world, well I don’t think that I am that pe
